A reader has shared this video:
www.92Y.org Oct 8, 2009 at the 92nd Street Y. Two of the nation’s most provocative voices on issues surrounding Judaism and the Middle East conflict come together. David Frum, moderator.
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However … I see that you have no points denying what I say
AntonBatey: Aeeehhh … That was what I was saying??! Typically that you’re trying to twist and turn
@DreamFreedom1
That’s a red herring. We’re not talking about the Muslims countries, which I absolutely abhor; we’re talking about Israel’s foreign policy.
@AntonBatey yawwnnn. Find a few other countries where people (allegedly) are not treated equally?! Oh yeah but they’re not Jewish, so it’s not interesting. And maybe also not safe cos they could b muslims and get very angry if you critisize them. So better stay a coward and keep critisizing JEWS.
@darwinkilledgod
Also, Israel is far from “tolerantâ€, as they are a “Jewish Stateâ€. By definition, that’s not “tolerant†or “democraticâ€. Even within Israel, the Sephardic Jews are treated as second-class citizens, and Arab Israelis are treated like, lol, tenth-class citizens.
@darwinkilledgod
That isn’t true at all. The leading Palestinian groups want to establish a secular democratic state in the pre-1967 borders. And I wouldn’t call Israel any more “democratic†than apartheid South Africa was. That point is completely irrevelant anyway. Nations have the right to self-determination. If they want to live under Islamic law, that is their business. That is no excuse for illegal occupation.
@AntonBatey As opposed to highly cerebral god of the Muslims? Religion is all crap, fine. We still have to decide whether we support a tolerant democracy or a savage theocracy… you seem to be on the later’s side.
@darwinkilledgod
Interestingly, the analogy you gave regarding U.S. citizens moving back in Europe is an analogy I use when people claim that the land of Israel belongs to the Jews because their imaginary friend, god, designated that land for them.
@darwinkilledgod
Illegal according to international law. The UN Charter says that countries cannot take land by force. Numerous Security Councils like 242 and 338 also demands that Israel withdraw from the lands they gained in the 1967 war. Also, settlements are illegal according to international law.
And I said nothing about the establishment of the State of Israel, so there is no need to strawman.
@AntonBatey Illegal according to whom? The Europeans and UN who founded Israel in the first place after they allowed the Holocaust?
Can I assume you are for returning Jerusalem to the Jews? They had it once…or was it illegal then too? How many generations do we go back in determining ownership? Should all the white people in the US go back to Europe? Should half the Mexicans be sent back to Spain?
Again, note the “well the law says Jews shouldn’t be there”… where’s the moral argument?
@darwinkilledgod
No, I don’t think so at all. My reasoning is very elementary: I’m never on the side of military occupiers who act disaccording to international law.
@DreamFreedom1 Me too. My moral compass is intact.
@AntonBatey I think you’re making his case here.
Your reasoning: X and Y are fighting. Saying you must be pro-X if you’re moral is the same as saying you must be pro-Y if you are moral.
A functioning moral parameter: X and Y are fighting. Which side has the moral high ground? Which allows other religions? Which treats women well? Which is willing to give up land? Which avoids civilian causalities when possible? Which would use nukes? Which wants to take over the world?
“Something wrong with your moral barometer if you’re anti-Israel� By the same line of reasoning, is there “something wrong with you if you’re†anti-Palestine? I am totally against Israeli policy and think they are a leading terrorist state in the world, but I am certainly not against their existence.
F1REbomb is a shitler-loving, antisemitic puppet
do not ever believe anything that ssalemi says
I’m an atheist and “yet” I’m passionately Pro Israel!
Americans, pls don’t give in to these Islamonazis! If you have any doubts if they’re really that bad (not only to Jewish people) come over to Europe and have a look how they have already ruined much of our continent. Have a look at London, Paris or Amsterdam e.g.
Given what a terrible leader Harper is in Canada (cowardly closing parliament through arcane rules that are a leftover of still being technically a monarchy, governing in secrecy too the point of censoring the talking points speakers used at press events, turning a decade of budget surpluses into the largest deficit in our countries history, etc) Prager would be wise to stop using that example.
Take the Native American Approach — don’t ever believe anything that rich fat old white guys say.
If your not a muslim and Anti-Israel, YOU ARE A PSEUDO-INTELLECTUAL PUPPET!
zionist vs zionist, how the hell is that a debate.
92StY makes you pay for it sadly.
Important debate to have.
It’s hard to summarize in 500 characters. I agree with you in part. But my short version: 1. Israel had n has a right to exist. 2. But probably it was not just to give them 55% of the land. 3. This may be a “small” injustice. 4. But when pple get a LITTLE bit ripped off they don’t get a LITTLE bit angry. They get EXTREMELY angry. 5. The Arabs got extremely angry. 6. Right or wrong this is now like a soap opera that obsesses Arabs. 7. So we need to solve this. 8. The best shot is still 2 states.
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